bebu ; good work. most of the wt info about the pyramid in in s in the s vol 3 , "thy kingdom come" you can look up some of it on freeminds. john
johnny cip
JoinedPosts by johnny cip
-
26
My head is spinning!
by bebu inthis morning the jw lady (p) and her daughter (m) came over for a second follow-up visit.
however, this is the first time m has been present for any extensive conversation.
i'm glad she showed up, though, because some major things happened, and i think if there is any breakthrough forthcoming it will be terrific to see 2 in one family get out at the same time.. .
-
-
-
12
Potential Trouble for WTS
by metatron inrecently, the watchtower has been relying on the european commission on human rights to try to fend off legal.
attacks by governments over there.
however, a recent case in germany's high court could change this.
-
-
johnny cip
metatron; i see what you are saying. the wt has been lobbying the european court or euro commission. to over rule . single countries ie france, russia, belgium, etc. and my jw dad was just telling me today the wt is not political. lol john
-
12
Potential Trouble for WTS
by metatron inrecently, the watchtower has been relying on the european commission on human rights to try to fend off legal.
attacks by governments over there.
however, a recent case in germany's high court could change this.
-
-
johnny cip
hi metatron; i don't understand what your post means. maybe you can explain? ty john
-
41
How much would you say the average JW donates in $$$ ?????
by run dont walk inregarding donations, what would you say the average jw would donate in $$$ in a one year span.. some are richer then others, some have no children, some have 6 children, i imagine it would vary quite a bit.. so what would be a fair average, $1,000 / year per person ?????.
now when i say donation, i mean every dollar a person gives, this would include contribution boxes in the hall, assemblies, etc, donations for magazines, books, videos etc, every possible thing one would donate money to the watchtower for.. if $1000 a person is a fair number, then multiply it by 6,000,000.
= $ 6 billion dollars a year, nice scam watchtower.
-
-
johnny cip
i'm no kid 40 + i clearly rmember when the wt's were sold for 25 to 35 cents . now the wt gives jw's the idea it cost the wt a few dollars to print each mag. when it only costs the wt about a nickle a mag. about 600% profit. x that by 24 million a week. my understanding is the study books they printed 15 years ago costed a few pennies less than a mag. but the price was double.. go figure. were the wt was ptting their kingdom it sure was not in heaven
-
41
How much would you say the average JW donates in $$$ ?????
by run dont walk inregarding donations, what would you say the average jw would donate in $$$ in a one year span.. some are richer then others, some have no children, some have 6 children, i imagine it would vary quite a bit.. so what would be a fair average, $1,000 / year per person ?????.
now when i say donation, i mean every dollar a person gives, this would include contribution boxes in the hall, assemblies, etc, donations for magazines, books, videos etc, every possible thing one would donate money to the watchtower for.. if $1000 a person is a fair number, then multiply it by 6,000,000.
= $ 6 billion dollars a year, nice scam watchtower.
-
-
johnny cip
i don't really matter. in richer cong's they get more $$$$$$$$$$$ . in africa or central america they get less. but what does it cost to get 100 jw's to sit under a grass hut is the fields of africa. and pass around a few old wt mag's and 2 nwt's next to ZERO. but the wt made sure they own that land. what about the story a few months ago about the poor african boy who left his, whole estate of 2 chicken to the wt. that's how low the wt will sink to get what ever you have. a few years ago the wt closed the branch in india. and they , what the wt didn't have enough $$$$$$$$$$$ to keep it open. NO THEY WERE NOT GETTING ENOUGH DONATIONS. SO THEY CLOSED. IT'S ALL $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
-
23
CHARITY WORK---WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!!
by Mary inlook at this article below!
volunteers hunt produce to feed hungrymon oct 25, 7:29 am ethealth - ap.
by bobby ross jr., associated press writer.
-
-
johnny cip
the charity work of the wt is next to ZERO. and if they do anything you will believe it will be in a afake. mag. what did the cong and wt do when last month those 5 jw's got killed in north carolina. ZERO a big FAT ZERO. some other church down the block payed for their funerals. james 2;15-18 . what happened to the wt in france> they had 10 years to come clean, no instead they spent millions in court . only to get screwed 10 times harder than they would have it they would have done the right thing. but no the wt is BUILDING THERE KINGDOM RIGHT HERE ON EARTH . they could care less about the 80 year old bro. on s.s. and don't have $$$$$ for heat this winter. they want his real estate. wt nov 1 2004. you will know them by thier rotten fruit... john
-
44
144,000 a literal number
by Bonnie_Clyde inthe questions from readers has affirmed that the 144,000 is a literal number.
it states that some numbers in revelation are symbolic and others are literal.
it argues that since the great crowd which is unnumbered is mentioned right after the 144,000, then logically the 144,000 would have to be literal.
-
-
johnny cip
http://www.johnankerberg.com/Articles/biblical-prophecy/BP1100W3.htm this is the link your looking for
BIBLICAL PROPHECY
Revelation
The Book of Revelation
by Dr. Robert ThomasThis DATA CD Contains a 55 Part series on the Book of Revelation in PDF format. The author, Dr. Robert Thomas, has written a two volume commentary on Revelation, which was published by Moody Press. His remarkable insights will help open this often mysterious book to even the average student of the Bible. This Data CD gathers together Thomas' outstanding series which originally appeared in installments on the johnankerberg.org website.
(Requires Computer with CD drive and the free Adobe Reader)
One Hundred Forty-Four Thousand: Who Are They? by Robert L. Thomas
Revelation 7:1-8 introduces 144,000 "slaves of our God" (7:3) who must be sealed before four angels release the wind that will blow on the earth, the sea, and every tree (7:1). Various people have advanced ideas about the identity of the 144,000. Years ago I met a man in a campground in Alabama who said he was one of this number. He belonged to the movement called Jehovah?s Witnesses. Being one of the 144,000 placed him in a special category of the elite among the Jehovah?s Witnesses, he thought. Such an identification of this numbered group, of course, has nothing to do with the context of Revelation 7 and is therefore erroneous. The Number
Another line of reasoning understands 144,000 as a symbolic number, divided into three multiplicands, 12 x 12 x 1000. The number 12 is both squared and multiplied by a thousand, a twofold way of emphasizing completeness. The principal reason for this explanation is a predisposition to have the 144,000 as representative of the church. No sound reason exists for taking this number or any other number in Revelation as symbolic. Verse 4 states a simple fact: "I heard the number of those sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand." One cannot justify taking that statement as a figure of speech. These are servants of God whom He will reserve for Himself during the future Great Tribulation just as he reserved 7,000 for Himself in the days of Ahab (1 Kgs. 19:18; Rom. 11:4). The listing of 12,000 from each of twelve tribes in 7:5-8 confirms that the number 144,000 is not symbolic, but literal. Further confirmation comes from Revelation 7:9 where John reveals his way of designating a large crowd. He simply says the crowd was so big that no one could number them. That is how John describes a very large crowd, not by using a specific number such as 144,000. The number represents an actual numerical count of God?s servants.
Their Identity
Verse 4 not only states the number, but also gives the identity of the 144,000. They are "those sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel." Discussion from various sources has sought to build a case that "every tribe of the sons of Israel" refers to spiritual Israel, another name for the church. The proof consists of a long list of New Testament passages that supposedly identify the church as spiritual Israel, the assumption being that Israel rejected her Messiah at His first coming and God has permanently replaced national Israel with members of the body of Christ composed of both Jews and Gentiles. None of the passages cited proves the point, however. The same debate rages in each of the other Scriptures as the one that exists in Revelation 7:4.
Others reason that the 144,000 must consist of the entire Christian community, both Jew and Gentile, because God would not secure some of His servants by sealing and leave others unprotected. Yet who can say what God must do? Only God Himself determines that.
The fact is that the New Testament has no clear cut example of the church being called "Israel." Neither is there such an example in all ancient church writings, until A.D. 160. The "Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16, which refers to national Israelites within the church, is no exception. Revelation 7:5-8 confirms that "the sons of Israel" in 7:4 refers to descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob when it lists the descendants of twelve sons of Jacob, tribe by tribe. To interpret that the church falls into twelve such divisions does serious violence to the listing.
Identifying the 144,000 as the physical descendants of Abraham agrees with a literal understanding of the promises made to ethnic Israel in both Old and New Testaments. Israel as a nation has not lost her distinctive national identity before God and will emerge in a prominent role during the days of the future Great Tribulation.
Their Role
Revelation 7 is an interlude between the sixth seal judgment of 6:12-17 and the seventh seal judgment of 8:1 ff. It answers the question of 6:17, the one asked by the panic-stricken earth-dwellers as they come to the realization that they are face to face with the wrathful judgment of the Father and the Lamb. They will say, "Who will be able to stand?" (6:17), a question that receives its answer in the two visions of chapter 7. In brief, the answer is the 144,000 and the innumerable multitude will be able to stand because they will have been delivered from the consequences of God?s wrath. Some will survive and even prosper under the blessing of God during earth?s future terrors.
Our earlier discussions of the first six seals have identified their time period as the first half of Daniel?s seventieth week, that is, the three-and-a-half years of a future seven-year period just before the return of Christ to earth. The pause in progression of the numbered seal judgments in Revelation 7 gives the reader a picture of conditions that prevail at the midpoint of that future period. The vision of 7:1-8 describes conditions on earth, and the one in 7:9-17 pictures conditions in heaven. Such a chronological placement of the visions fits with the withholding of the winds (7:1) until the sealing of the 144,000 (7:3) is completed. The parts of nature protected from the winds?the earth, the sea, and every tree?will be objects of the plagues brought by the trumpet judgments during the last half of the seven-year period (8:6-12). The sealing of the 144,000 protects them from the plagues of the trumpet judgments to come (e.g., 9:4). Thus, several lines of confirmation reinforce the conclusion that the sealing of the 144,000 will transpire in the middle of the future seventieth week.
The seal of God upon this group will protect them as God pours out His wrath against the earth-dwellers around them. The earth-dwellers will stand in rebellion against God, but the 144,000 as slaves of God will faithfully proclaim the gospel. They will keep the commandments of God and hold the testimony of Jesus (12:17) in the face of severe persecution inflicted on them by God?s enemies. They will escape the impact of God?s wrath, such as the "locust" plague because that plague will hurt only "the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads" (9:4). This will free them to conduct their worldwide ministry of evangelism in those last days. By this time the church will be in heaven, the rapture having occurred at the beginning of the seven-year period, and the rest of Israel and redeemed Gentiles will be in a secluded place enjoying the protection of God. These faithful 144,000 will be His voice in a world marked by unbridled human sin and darkened by the reign of the false Christ. That will be their role. We will meet them again in our study when we get to Revelation 12 and 14, but Revelation 7 marks their preparation for serving the Lord during future perilous times.
God will never leave the world without a witness to Himself. Fellow Christian, you and I are His witnesses during the present era as we await our Lord?s coming for His church. We must be faithful to represent Him because many around us need to hear and embrace the good news that Jesus saves. We will face opposition, but we can rest assured that He will protect us as long as He has a job for us to do just as He will protect the 144,000 in the future. Probably the pressure upon us will be far less direct and harsh than that upon our future fellow-witnesses, but on us the temptation to remain silent will perhaps be more subtle. Let?s not be lulled to sleep by the enemy. Let?s redeem the time because the days are evil.
Note: For more details about the 144,000, see my discussion in Revelation 1?7 (Moody Press, 1992), pages 461-482. To order this volume, you may contact Grace Books International at (800) GRACE15 or <www.gbibooks.com>.
Prophecy Authors
Dr. Renald Showers
Dr. Tom Figart
Dr. Michael Stallard
Dr. Robert Thomas
Dr. Will Varner
Dr. Tommy Ice
by Dr. John AnkerbergFOR SUCH A TIME AS THIS: STEPPING UP WHEN IT COUNTS
WATCH:A Personal Word from
Ankerberg Theological Research Institute President
Dr. John Ankerberg regardingThe Freedoms Christians
Might Lose In This Election NEWS YOU DIDN'T HEAR FROM TOM BROKAW, PETER JENNINGS OR DAN RATHER ABOUT PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTION, EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH, AND SAME-SEX MARRIAGE by Dr. John Ankerberg
READ ARTICLE: The Freedoms Christians Might Lose In This ElectionHTML (Webpage)............. PDF (Printable)................ HTML (Webpage)............. PDF (Printable)................ THIS WEEK ON
JOHN ANKERBERGFor Such A Time As This: Stepping Up When It Counts
ORDER THIS WEEK'S SERIES:
SAVE with
Package Purchase!For Such A Time As This: Stepping Up When It Counts
SOCIAL ISSUES TOPICS
THE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE DEBATE
Prepare yourself to ?defend your faith? in the face of the misinformation so prevalent in our society, schools, media and even in our churches today. Whether you are a recent high school graduate headed for college, a Sunday School teacher, or just someone who had questions about your faith, here are some articles (and below some videos) to help you understanding the basis for that faith!
Index The Basis for Faith Proofs for the Truth of the Bible The Resurrection of Jesus How to Cult-Proof Your Mind Copyright 2004, Ankerberg Theological Research Institute
-
9
Dad Blames Church for death of teen; also case referred
by Dogpatch ina half-dozen protesters picketed in front of court of queen?s bench on tuesday to support a calgary man who has sued the watch tower bible and tract society of canada and others for being responsible for his daughter?s death.
inside the court, a hearing by the society, edmonton?s cross cancer institute, two doctors and several jehovah?s witnesses to have lawrence hughes?
$1-million statement of claim quashed was eventually adjourned.
-
-
johnny cip
the whiole point in this case is the wt used their heavy hand . and went beyond the father rights. as head of the house hold. even if mr. hughes loses this case. he may help some people from dying. he's doing the right thing. the wt . got into his business. now he's kicking as hard as he can. we need more stand up people like MR. HUGHES.. john
-
23
"Dad blames church for death of teen" (Calgary Herald)
by Quotes indad blames church for death of teenjehovah's witneses try to have lawsuit thrown outdaryl slade, calgary herald.
a half-dozen protesters picketed in front of court of queen's bench on tuesday to support a calgary man who has sued the watch tower bible and tract society of canada and others for being responsible for his daughter's death.
inside the court, a hearing by the society, edmonton's cross cancer institute, two doctors and several jehovah's witnesses to have lawrence hughes' $1-million statement of claim quashed was eventually adjourned.
-
-
johnny cip
right mr. hughes can say what ever he wants. and you can call him a liar. but when he comes into court with wt reprint.showing the wt forbid vaccations, transplants, etc who will be the liar.. these wt lawyers should know there wt history before they make fool of them selves in court. but i guess a zombie is a zombie. john
-
11
LISTEN TO ORAL ARGUMENTS IN JW ABUSE CASE! (Berry Girls, NH Supreme Court)
by loveis inif you have an mp3 player (windows media player should be fine), just click on this link to hear them hash it out!
http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/recordings/2004/2003-0779.mp3.
(if you need to catch up on the history of the berry girls case, this ongoing new hampshire supreme court appeal was discussed in more detail in these recent threads:) .
-
-
johnny cip
i'm very surprised i'm the only one here to have any ideas about this wt child molestion case? and even listen to the tape and can come with some feelings. i'm learning a lot listening to this tape. i only hope some others will join in. john
